Eurail Pass or Cheap Air Routes - which is better in Europe?

	Original posting: ashman_TO 07 Nov 2008, 02:22 so. how excactly does this work ??? When it says '3 days' does that mean let's say from Feb. 10-13 are the only days I can use it? $213 sounds an awful lot for 3 days Railpass
	Follow up: pisspig1 07 Nov 2008, 02:43 "$213 sounds an awful lot..." it's the biggest bargain in Europe!
	Follow up: pdxswim§ * 07 Nov 2008, 06:25 Usually you can use the 3 days in a two week period. The biggest problem these days with Eurail is that you have to pay big supplements to get on the fast trains. Depending how far you are traveling, it is usually cheapest to fly easyjet etc and buy a few lone rail tickets when you need them.
	Follow up: ashman_TO 07 Nov 2008, 14:56 use the 3 days in a 2 week period??? so, what it means is I can use up 36 hours aloted for me? Or like I asked, is it for (let's say) Feb. 1-3 dates only (starting from when I bought the ticket and 3 days counted)?
	Follow up: hardfuck2 07 Nov 2008, 19:32 Its divided into zones. you pick the countries you want to visit and your rail ticket is priced on that basis. this is an irish website but there are links to europrail and it will give you more info.. www.irishrail.ie
	Follow up: hardfuck2 07 Nov 2008, 19:34 actually a direct link is www.interrailnet.com
	Follow up: sunbuns99 07 Nov 2008, 22:29 ashman, The site below explains Eurail passes in detail. http://www.seat61.com/Railpass.htm Look at down the list to find: How do Eurail passes work pdxswim is right -- cheap airfares are best for long hauls. If you're going to be staying with a certain area, then the Eurail pass _may_be_ a good deal .. it really depends on what you want/need in terms of convenience / speed. To answer your question, the Eurail pass comes in several areas, lengths of use, and class/age ranges. Look at railpass.com and also www.eurorailways.com/ for more info. You have to qualify for the cheaper railpasses -- Senior (over 60) ,Youth (under 26) and Saverpass (2 or more people traveling together). Some countries offer 1st and 2nd class for the regular Adult Eurail pass. One of the best deals for railpasses is the East Europe Regional pass or the Balkan pass. You can also add on some countries (such as Czech for $75 US) when you buy another pass (Germany / Austria). Although a 3-day pass is possible - most single or 2-3 country passes are 4 days minimum (a few are 3 day minimum). For example the Spain and Portugal Eurail Flexipass is $314 US for 3 days unlimited travel for any three 24 hours periods during a 2-month time span. But the the France-Spain Eurail Flexipass is a minimum of 4 days (although you can choose 1st ($374 US) or 2nd ($326 US). I found that in most cases the difference between 1st and 2nd were not so large. There is a tendency for a different clientele in 1st class -- 2nd class has more students and youth travelers. If you take a night train, it normally counts for only the day you depart. (check to make sure). However, in most cases, if you want a sleeper car or couchette (fold down seat that converts to to a bed), you'll need to pay an extra 'supplement' over and above the portion that included in your rail pass. Sometimes, long distance trains (Intercity - special international trains that travel cross-border or have limited stops will also charge a 'extra' amount or reservation fee (over and above what you have paid for the rail pass fare) - So pdxswim is right again -- that these fees can very soon increase your overall rail fare cost -- by a little but sometimes by a lot -- if you trying to keep a rigorous schedule or to cover a lot of territory. Some of the sites listed let you calculate train fares (with a rail pass) between selected cities so you can see how much the costs would compare. However, it really depends on the country and the type of train. In some case, you would come out cheaper by taking a night train (using a railpass) and paying the supplement in 2nd class for a couchette (it usually is no more expensive than for a cheap hotel room -- although it is certainly NOT very comfortable since it's not really easy to sleep on a train. But if you are trying to get some far away city, it does save time to take the night train. For example, I took the night train from Madrid (after spending a 1 1/2 there) to Barcelona (so I departed about 10pm from Madrid - that counts a one day). I arrived the next morning at Barcelona Sants (but it was the termination of my original train ride so my railpass was NOT deducted a second day) since I departed the train for a couple days of sightseeing in BCN. So I've spent only 1 day of my Eurail pass so far. Then a couple of days later, I travel to Carcassone (France) on a morning train, and then take a evening train to Montpellier where I spent the night. So I've only spent 2 days of my 4 day pass. TGV or other high-speed trains are going to cost your more and are usually NOT included in a Eurail pass. However, you can get discounts (sometimes sizeable ones) on such trains -- for example the Eurostar from London/ Paris and Thalys train from Paris to Brussels and Amsterdam. Also there are special 'free' rides with a Eurail pass on certain boats and ferries (or sometimes reduced fares). Check the 'bonus' offered for each country or region. For example, some cruise line on the Danube are included in Austrian or other railpasses. The ferry passage from Italy (Brindisi) to Greece is covered by a railpass or the passenger ferry boat is 50% off from Ireland to France.
	Follow up: sunbuns99 07 Nov 2008, 22:35 Eurail passes - particularly the ones with the most discounted fares are ONLY available for advance purchase to tourists from outside Europe (non-EU citizens). They must be visiting (non-residents) and you cannot purchase them in country (normally). The rail passes is sent to your in Canada and it is validated the first day you use it and subsequently the remaining number of days of validity is reduced on each following (not consecutive) day that you use it. P.S. First decide where you are going to visit and then look into the best cost/value way to travel to those places. There are quite a few discount and cheap fare airlines -- more than in North America. See wizzair.com sabena brussels airlines Search Google: Europe low fare airlines
	Follow up: ashman_TO 08 Nov 2008, 02:51 ok so that clears up everything 3 days pass doesn't mean Day 1-3 (eg Feb. 1-3) it means a total of 3 days, on whenever and whichever days as long as the total time of my use of Eurorail comes up to 36 hours. (eg I used the train on Feb. 1, Feb. 6, Feb. 8) I got you now, cause that's what I was wondering
	Follow up: kimshep 08 Nov 2008, 11:23 Correct. Also, if you are travelling in Germany only, A German Rail Pass is far cheaper than a Eurail Pass. The passes are generally valid for x days travel, in a 30 day period. They include travel on the high-speed ICE trains (InterCity Express) and are offered in both First and Second Class. For details, go the http://www.diebahn.de and find the section on "Offers For International Visitors". The site also has an integrated booking engine so that you can choose journeys, see the stops and find out the regular (non-pass) costs. I have always found this an excellent way to travel. The beauty of the German Rail Pass is that you buy, say, a 4 day pass. The days do not need to be consecutive, but just within the 30 day period. The ticket has 4 coupons. When you take your first 'day', you are required to write the date on the first coupon and it will be validated during your journey. But the great thing is .. that it allows unlimited travel for the entire day. So, you could start in Munich (as an example) and travel to Frankfurt (a 3 hour trip), get off the train, have lunch, visit / sightsee, and then board a Frankfurt to Berlin service. Your original coupon will be revalidated on the second leg .. and so on. You could then get off the train in Berlin, have a quick look around and then reboard another train to Hamburg. Get the idea ? Also, with the German Railpass you can : - slip marginally outside the German border, for no extra cost ie: Innsbruck is included as a boundary point, even though it is in Austria. - buy the 5 and 10 day passes on arrival in Germany, but you need to show a non-EU passport. For other variations, buy them on the site, and they are sent to you. - As is mentioned, a number of boat services are also included, particularly if you want to go cruising up the Rhine, from Koln etc for a few hours. - on a DeutscheBahn trip to say, Amsterdam or Brussels, you only pay the 'add-on' from the appropriate German border town - not from your original point of embarkation. I've actually found that travelling from Berlin to Frankfurt, then to Brussels and changing over to the Eurostar, is cheaper if you do it on a German Rail Pass and purchase a supplement, rather than buying an outright Eurail pass. That will depend however, on whether you are basing in just one or two countries .. or floating around multiple Euro nations.
	Follow up: kimshep 08 Nov 2008, 11:27 Should have added : "I've actually found that travelling from Berlin to Frankfurt, then to Brussels and changing over to the Eurostar, TO LONDON, is cheaper if you do it on a German Rail Pass and purchase a supplement, rather than buying an outright Eurail pass."
	Follow up: kimshep 08 Nov 2008, 11:37 The other thing to remember is that while cheap, LCC travel by air is available, it usually has to be booked at least a month out to get the best airfares, which limits your flexibility. With a rail pass, you don't have to specify the days you want to travel. You just rock up to the station and board the train. In Germany, if travelling in Economy / 2nd Class on 'busy' days, you can buy a Seat Reservation or 'Sitzplasse' for 2-3 Euros, which ensures a reserved seat. Otherwise, you take pot-luck, but I've never found this to be a problem. Also, if travelling by air, you need to count in the cost of taxis to and from the airport, which can get expensive (especially in London). Whereas, the train generally dumps you right in the heart of the city. That can be a big saving.
	Follow up: ashman_TO 08 Nov 2008, 11:47 I was planning a rail pass in Spain if my Morocco plans don't work, I'll fly to Madrid, spend a few days there, head to Malaga then take the ferry to Tangier for a few days. then back to Madrid
	Follow up: fckbud 09 Nov 2008, 22:40 Traveling by rail is fun in Europe, but it has gotten so expensive over the past 10 years that it is no longer worth it. You're best bet (cheaper and saves time on long distances) is to go by air. Air travel has gotten so cheap here in Europe, not at all like in the US or South America. Try some of the cheapo carriers such as Vueling.com, Ryanair.com, easyjet.com, Spanair.es, etc. Another good site (by in español) is vuelosbaratos.com or atrapalo.com Rail is good between Madrid and Málaga... the new high speed AVE is 2 hour 30 minutes for €35 each way. Have fun in Madrid.
	Follow up: fckbud 09 Nov 2008, 22:45 Oh, and for the Eurail pass, it DOES mean three days within any given time period, e.g. three months. The 3 days are not subsequent. With a little planning, use the rail passes to get you between long distances, e.g. Madrid-Paris, Paris-Rome, and for shorter distances, Paris-Brussels or Amsterdam, buy the ordinary tickets when you get here.

[ymna2] Beach weather in Florida

--- On Fri, 3/3/06, SORRENTO-GUY sent these Florida pics into the Yahoo Group: ymna2 (at) yahoogroups.com

Playita beach, Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

[This article was originally posted on [ymna2] Yahoo Group by atitlan]

Some more information about Playita, the gay
nudist beach at Manuel Antonio on Costa Rica's
Pacific coast.

Here's a link to a gay travel article:
http://www.gaycitynews.com/gcn216/travel_costarica.html

Here's a gay guide to Costa Rica:
http://www.gaycostarica.com/lugares/hoteles.php?idioma=en

If you're on a budget, stay in Quepos town and
take the bus to the beach - or you could stay
with the backpackers in basic accommodation
right beside the main beach at Manuel Antonio.
You don't have to take the tiny plane, there's
a regular bus service from San Jose.

If you've got a little more money to spend,
there's quite a few gay and gay-friendly hotels
dotted along the road between Quepos and the
main beach. They tend to go up and down in
their standards, depending on who's looking
after them during your stay. I've stayed at
Casa Blanca a couple of times. I wouldn't
rave about it but the four apartments have
a great view and overlook a pool which is
(or at least was) clothing optional:
http://casablanca.server1.de/en/

As for Playita beach, see the pics attached.
You'll share the jungle behind you with
monkeys, iguanas, sloths and the odd harmless
boa constrictor. It's almost a mile north of
the main beach. Here's a travel review:

"If you're standing on Manuel Antonio beach looking at the water,
and turn to your right, you will see where the beach ends at some
black volcanic rocks far in the distance.

The beach doesn't actually end there, it just LOOKS like it does.

By clambering over some jagged rocks and a short drop off a 3-foot
ledge, you find another pocket of light sand and blue water backed
by thick rainforest.

Perfect spot for gay men to claim as their own, eh?

This section of Playa Manuel Antonio has been used by gay men for
many years. Often times high noon on weekends will find 20-50 men,
half of them naked, frolicking in the water or sunbathing.
Doubtless a few more will be back in the trees engaging in
unspeakable acts! *wink*

Public nudity is forbidden everywhere in Costa Rica. So you sunbathe
nude at your own risk. Officially you can be arrested for it, but I
haven't heard of ANY foreign visitor being arrested for it. The worst
I've heard is that tickets have been issued. More frequently you're
asked politely to put your clothes back on. But FAR MORE OFTEN you
don't even have to deal with it.

This beach is used as frequently by Tico gays as by foreigners. It's
extremely cruisy, especially up in the forest behind the beach. Just
be sure you know what a Manzanillo tree looks like before you let
someone bend you over a branch, because you don't want giant blisters
all over your body, now do you?

Enjoy, and take a flashlight if you plan on returning after sunset.
It gets dark REALLY fast, and climbing those rocks at night is NO fun!"

The area behind the beach was being threated by
development. It might be worth checking before
you book, just in case this slice of paradise
is no longer what it was.

Have fun
atitlan

Outdoor fun

Photos posted originally on the Yahoo Group [ymna2]

[ymna2] coral sea

--- On Wed, 2/22/06, atitlan sent the above pic.

Nudist delight

--- On Sat, 11/8/08, atitlan sent out the above photo on his Yahoo Group [ymna2]:

Naked Pumpkin Run 1-3

--- On Sat, 11/8/08, atitlan sent the above photos out on his Yahoo Group [ymna2] : The annual Naked Pumpkin Run takes place in various locations, mostly at night and mostly involving students. More information, pictures and videos here: http://nakedpumpkin run.org/contact. html __._,_.___